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Virtual Symposium On “Odd Then, Fantastic Now”: American Swinging Rose Through The Military's Ranks
Virtual Symposium On “Odd Then, Fantastic Now”: American Swinging Rose Through The Military's Ranks This blog entry is part of the sixth virtual symposium, an informal collection of bloggers who – purely for the hell of it – voted on a single topic (Odd Then, Fantastic Now: How attitudes toward specific aspects of sex change between youth and maturity) and agreed, on or about March 22, to post their interpretations of that topic. A continually updated list of participants can be found here: Participants List For The Sixth Virtual Symposium Odd Then, Fantastic Now Most readers will likely be surprised to learn that modern swinging in America, perhaps one of the most libertine, if not liberal, activities citizens can engage in, came up through the conservative armed forces. Terry Gould. whose book The Lifestyle: A Look at the Erotic Rites of Swingers is considered a seminal work on swinging, told the web site Kasidie that “If you look at warrior cultures from way back throughout human history, you'll find that there's a large degree of spouse sharing. The reason there is because the warriors that get killed left their widows behind.” Okay, but how did swinging “from way back throughout human history” emerge in America? According to the Kasidie interview, which ran under the headline “A vanilla’s experience of the swinger lifestyle,” swinging took root among U.S. Air Force pilots. “In World War II, the United States & Canadian Air-force had all these bases across North America, training pilots to go overseas. These were officers usually the rank of captain or up, fairly well paid, and they usually brought their wives to live on the bases,” Gould told Kasidie. “So you have this society of Air Force pilots living on the bases with their wives around them,” Gould continued. “These pilots had a very high death rate -- higher than the death-rate of the other armed services. 1/3 got killed in combat so there were a lot of widows left. So swinging was going on all over these bases. These pilot[s] were exceptional men. The Air Force chose the best of the best, and their wives were exceptional too. So you have these good looking guys and their beautiful wives who are risk takers. So when the survivors came back home after World War II, they moved to the suburbs but they still kept at it, and still kept sharing wives.” (Side note on something odd then, and drummed out of the corps now: The terms “wife swapping” and “wife sharing” aren’t used much in the swinging community these days. First off, the term smacks of wives as chattel to be passed around. Should have been icky then, but those were different times… thankfully. Second, there are a lot of solo swingers. No spouses at all are swapped, or shared. Gould is historically accurate in his terminology, however. Another side note: The bit about handsome pilots and beautiful wives sounds a little too Tom Cruise/Meg Ryan for me. I would have thought pilots were chosen based on their ability to, y’know, fly planes, not on their high school yearbook photos.) Gould is aware that the lifestyle is about more than men getting their rocks off, however. As Gould told Kasidie, “The swinger subculture is basically set up as a conservative institution. The misconception of the lifestyle by the straight world is that it's just a vehicle for men to have sex with other women while their wives come along. But that's not what it's about at all. If it were about that, it would not have grown by such leaps & bounds over the last 20 years, penetrating all ends of the continent and Europe and Australia and doubling and tripling in numbers.” How did swinging survive World War II, when assumedly there wasn’t as much need for the men of U.S. warrior clans to protect their women? According to Gould, a former pilot named Leidy began traveling around the country, passing lists around to his buddies of willing couples. “That list was passed around to upper middle class, suburban, married people and that's basically where it stayed for the next 50 years,” Gould said. “That's why you see a lot of clean-cut people with healthy attitudes and above average intelligence in the lifestyle, because that cohort stayed the same right from its origins right after World War II.” That trend is probably democratizing – or at least reverting to the mean, especially as more and more people embrace the lifestyle. People who don’t have healthy attitudes, who are of average intelligence, and who aren’t clean cut swing… in short, American swingers have begun looking more and more like Americans. Let’s give Gould the final word on what’s odd then but fantastic now, specifically in terms of how morals have been reshaped. “Morals are fashion, they change all the time. In the 1950s it was immoral to have oral sex. Now it's promoted between married people. It's considered a perfectly moral act now. It used to be immoral for a woman to look directly into a man's eyes. Morals will always change.” Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic |
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well now i understand why when i first was introduced into the lifestyle Colorado springs was touted as the most active lifestyle community... there are three military bases there... so i guess that war really did shape this country and even has far reaching effects into my life and choices today... love it when i learn something... today is becoming a day of days for learning... Lets Create together. http://passion.com/blog/jadesmith69 we can fantasize forever. J
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Glad you enjoyed it! I'm no expert in nonverbal communication, but I wonder if the business about direct eye contact stll holds, especially with people 25 or so years younger than we are, who are so used to indirect contact via mobile devices that the art of flirting is dying... I mean, it's hard to convay an emoticon in real life, isn't it? Heh heh heh. is that why some folks don't put their eyes in their profiles? And what about people whose profile pictures are SOLELY of their eyes! They must be perverts! Of course, we're all perverts here, so that's not saying much... Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Labels, especially those we have assigned to us, can be a way of gaining control over someone. I'd bet your self description either screas questioners off, or opens up lines for very interesting discussions... Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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well now i understand why when i first was introduced into the lifestyle Colorado springs was touted as the most active lifestyle community... there are three military bases there... so i guess that war really did shape this country and even has far reaching effects into my life and choices today... love it when i learn something... today is becoming a day of days for learning... If this is true -- and for this post I'm just going with Gould's words -- it means that to be against swniging is to be against the men and women who are keeping America safe. In short, if you don't support swinging, the terrorists will win. Enjoy the symposium... and thank you for benig part of it! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Whatever you do, you must never, ever turn those stories into blog posts. Even if you anonymize them and give them a quasi-fictional gloss, you must never, ever turn them into detailed blog posts. And by all means, do not include pictures of insignia when you do -- I mean, don't. Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Very interesting post. My swinging experiences have told me how liberating it is, especially for women!
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Very interesting post. My swinging experiences have told me how liberating it is, especially for women! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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I had heard of warriors sharing women, but the Air Corps story was a new one to me. To me the most fascinating story of military sexuality and brotherhood is of the Sacred Bands of Thebes- homosexual lovers who fought side by side. But this I think is a close second. What a great way to bond with a comrade in arms...and his wife. Morals and culture ARE fluid and I like that they are flowing in the direction of swinging and polyamory. It seems quite healthy and natural to me. Become a member now and get a free tote bag.
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I had heard of warriors sharing women, but the Air Corps story was a new one to me. To me the most fascinating story of military sexuality and brotherhood is of the Sacred Bands of Thebes- homosexual lovers who fought side by side. But this I think is a close second. What a great way to bond with a comrade in arms...and his wife. Morals and culture ARE fluid and I like that they are flowing in the direction of swinging and polyamory. It seems quite healthy and natural to me. Yeah, I find Gould's reporting impressive... and I'd love to read an update, as the whole business about swinging being an upper-middle-class phenomenon seems a little out of date. I've often wondered how a "Sacred Band" style unit in the American military would function... how might couples -- heterosexual or homosexual -- change their actions if their loved ones were right next to them? Would love for a partner trump unit cohesion? Would there be increased striving for excellence? Or would the military training supercede the relationships? Anyone with military training want to take a swing at this? Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Do tell! Hearing about that could make for a great post, if you're of a mind... When swinging with couples, often it's the man who suggests it but it's the woman who enjoys it the most. Men can be possessive!
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Thank you for that bit of history on swinging. I cracked up on the paragraph that talked of the list being passed around and that swinging has "penetrated all part of Europe and the world". Ha! Great take on this topic, Kk The observant make the best lovers, I may not do right, but I do write, I have bliss, joy, and happiness in my life, Kitkat Come check out my blog KItkat1415 check out this post by me Adventures In Body Grooming #39 April Topic Link: What Lies Beneath If April Showers Oh Bloody Hell What Kind Of Weather Turns Me On Bloggers Symposium 40
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22/3/2015 18h25 |
As a former military brat, I can attest to the amount of swinging that went on, on base when I lived in the housing section. While I didn't quite understand it at the time, to see the in's and out's of people literally coming and going made for some interesting chats with my friends. Of course, it also left an indelible mark on me as well, since I came to love and appreciate an older woman; call it jealousy or whatnot, but I always longed to have my own way with the married ones as well. It wouldn't be till I was a little older, that I would get my chance. But of course, that's story for another day!
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Wow, really? So informative! "To Be Consumed" Blog : I want to be your drug of painful withdrawals.
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Following your suggestion, I'll post on that topic in the next few days. When swinging with couples, often it's the man who suggests it but it's the woman who enjoys it the most. Men can be possessive! Possessiveness is the death of swinging for couples. It indicates problems in a couple's relationship. By the same token, solos -- both men and women -- have to be very respectful of relationships if playing with couples, or people in a couple or triad or what have you... Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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This is fascinating! I never really thought that swinging started in the military.... Well, every country is different, I suppose. Mr. Gould made a mistake in his report while insinuating that swinging spread from the US to Europe and Australia. Don't know about Australia but swinging happily "swang" in Europe since 19th century, or even earlier. Perhaps, he was talking about military? In Europe swinging took root in creative performing communities such as among artists, actors, dancers.. and spread from there. Visit my blog It's a Mad, Mad, Mad World of NaughtyInSO, leave a comment, become a watcher. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LIVE AND LET LIVE Be happy! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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*Laughing* Well, depending on what "work" is, this post could have been a very useful conversation starter! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Thank you for that bit of history on swinging. I cracked up on the paragraph that talked of the list being passed around and that swinging has "penetrated all part of Europe and the world". Ha! Great take on this topic, Kk And... great topic! I say that because it was one you suggested, Kitkat... a lot of people found it very challenging, but a lot also rose to the occasion! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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As a former military brat, I can attest to the amount of swinging that went on, on base when I lived in the housing section. While I didn't quite understand it at the time, to see the in's and out's of people literally coming and going made for some interesting chats with my friends. Of course, it also left an indelible mark on me as well, since I came to love and appreciate an older woman; call it jealousy or whatnot, but I always longed to have my own way with the married ones as well. It wouldn't be till I was a little older, that I would get my chance. But of course, that's story for another day! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Wow, really? So informative! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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At very least, it's food for fantasy, hm? As for your last questions: Hm, is that an offer? Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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This is fascinating! I never really thought that swinging started in the military.... Well, every country is different, I suppose. Mr. Gould made a mistake in his report while insinuating that swinging spread from the US to Europe and Australia. Don't know about Australia but swinging happily "swang" in Europe since 19th century, or even earlier. Perhaps, he was talking about military? In Europe swinging took root in creative performing communities such as among artists, actors, dancers.. and spread from there. I do think his primary focus was North America, for what it's worth... I'd love to know more about swinging among actors and artists in Europe... can you offer someplace I might look? Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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I believe -- and I will confess to not yet being able to track down a copy of Gould's book (my article was based solely on his interview) in any of my local independent bookstores... and I'm not ready to go the online seller route yet. But I will, soon, if necessary... I do think his primary focus was North America, for what it's worth... I'd love to know more about swinging among actors and artists in Europe... can you offer someplace I might look? In my previous life, I was married to an artist (ex #2). Most of my friends were artists, ballet dancers, actors and musicians. I grew up in theater so to speak, as my grandfather was a producer and he took me everywhere whenever he could. From early age, I observed and listened. Conversations at dinner table were also interesting. My first experience in swinging lifestyle was with ex #2 at the aftershow party with a theater group. This little excursion into my past is just to tell you where my information came from. Visit my blog It's a Mad, Mad, Mad World of NaughtyInSO, leave a comment, become a watcher. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LIVE AND LET LIVE Be happy! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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I don't have any references to offer at this time. May do some research? In my previous life, I was married to an artist (ex #2). Most of my friends were artists, ballet dancers, actors and musicians. I grew up in theater so to speak, as my grandfather was a producer and he took me everywhere whenever he could. From early age, I observed and listened. Conversations at dinner table were also interesting. My first experience in swinging lifestyle was with ex #2 at the aftershow party with a theater group. This little excursion into my past is just to tell you where my information came from. Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Appreciate your sharing this background, and I'm ready to, um, cock an ear at any tales you wish to tell, or information you dig up that you'd like to share! Tales? I have many. My previous life didn't have a boring moment. My present life isn't as exciting but isn't boring either. And, because I was born with the curse, my tales are bizarre and peculiar. I hoped it would change when I crossed the globe, but alas it didn't. I still act as a magnet for the oddest things.... Visit my blog It's a Mad, Mad, Mad World of NaughtyInSO, leave a comment, become a watcher. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LIVE AND LET LIVE Be happy! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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I'd be happy to share any information that will cross my laptop screen. Tales? I have many. My previous life didn't have a boring moment. My present life isn't as exciting but isn't boring either. And, because I was born with the curse, my tales are bizarre and peculiar. I hoped it would change when I crossed the globe, but alas it didn't. I still act as a magnet for the oddest things.... Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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